Economy Issues

[Atlas]

You just want all the new players lol.

Actually no, Im very picky on who can and who cannot join Elysium. If you may have noticed, most Elysiums Residents are people that i or other actually know. I suggested it because we have the space for people to build shops here. I would more than welcome it. i mean i really dont think there is anyone else who would do spawn and have a bunch of shops everywhere, i know spawn is an easy one but for the Just shop town means someone would have to set it all up and make it all and do all the work and spend the money to do it. me im more than happy to do it for the Economy of the game and the community.

 

[doomkitten]

I feel that shops should remain as they are; an option everyone has access to. If a town wants a shop, they can have a shop. If they don't, they don't.
If they want cheap prices, they'll shop around. If they can't find what they're looking for, they're more than welcome to do what everyone else does: mine/grow/find it themselves.

Monopolizing shops would be unfair because one person or group holds the power over pricing and availability and preference.

We have more than one option as far as shops go in the real world, why not in game as well?
People shop at certain places based on a variety of factors, not just cost.
But the currency, imo, could use a little change.

Edited to add: I meant to put a few quotes in here. But you catch my drift. -.-

 

[Atlas]

Ermm i dont think its being understood what i mean.. i mean that people can come and Build there shops HERE. or at another location, so that EVERYONES shops are at the SAME place. hince the term Trading Hub. I think it would be way easier and accessible if everyone decided and voted on an area where everyone can build shops and buy and sell things at. Like ive said, I offer Elysium for that propostion because the area next to our spawn is very very undeveloped and is a large open space. i would plot it out fairly with large amounts of land for people to custom build their own Shops. There is in no way i would profit from people building shops here, i dont need others money, but to do a trading Hub i Offer elysiums open areas for development of a Trade district. Its easy, towns already here, Easy navigation to the shopping district from Elysians Teleport hub and proposed new World spawn. I will spend my own money to buy the remaining amount of land for the town, and build the roads and infrastructure of the area for people to build their shops. All i need is everyone to Vote on the idea and approve. i would get to work right away to make this happen. Im willing to spend my time, money and effort to help out this economy with no benefit to myself.

 

[doomkitten]

--

Aye, I apologize. I had been taking entirely too long to write up my reply and once it had gone through, I noticed your posts as well.
Hence my editing that I failed to add in necessary quotes from posts I was directly replying to.

But in either case, generally speaking, my post stands. Because even with a central trading hub, it still means we have choice on what we sell, who we buy from and whether or not we choose to compete with pricing.
Unless of course that isn't the case then please ignore the aforementioned when referring to my stance on a central point from which trading would take place.

 

[Atlas]

Well, i see your point, if any stardards or regulations need to be made about the Economy and pricing and who sells what needs to be done, then im sure we can maturaly have a vote on how this happens and how it works. im merely proving a central location with a large amount of space for people free of charge. so we can have convince and actual trade. See, how things used to work in the world when it came to Economy and trading. Certain cities were "Trade Centers or Trade Hubs" Placing where large amounts of buying and selling were done in these cities. I think if we were to introduce this idea, it will give people an insensitive to come to that Trade city in the game and build their own shops or come to Shop. So thats why i offer Elysium, We are a central city, We have the teleport array to go to other towns. If we get the privilage of World spawn, it would make getting to Elysium even simpliar and getting to other cities as well. We also have the space available to make Elysium a giant Trade town for everyone in the Game. And i would personally go out and claim the land with my own money and build the infrastructure for the plots for embassies. I will allow for complete customization for All shops in this area and give the plots free of Charge. And if need be of Standards and Regulations need to be imposed on the Economy they can be voted upon and be Reinforced in Elysium.

 

[Ranger]

Let's cut to the chase, it's an alibis for a dominate sphere of influence.
Why not be Elysian anyways? Don't we all wish to be immortal heroes!?

 

[Kapten_Knas]

The main reason to have gold as a currency is because it needs *some* effort to acquire in a convenient way.
The issue is that not many things exist that are lucrative enough to spend said gold on and will be theorycrafted and implemented.

 

[PianoKitty]

I'm going to stay out of the whole "Elysium as the spawn" discussion and get back to what the first few posts were about, which is making the economy better. One thing I would suggest to people with existing shops: if your sign says I can sell you a stack of jungle logs or stone or redstone blocks or any other material, make sure there's enough room in the chest that i can actually sell it to you. I have never played on hard mode mc, and i suck at the general idea of survival, so mining (In the ground. With creepies that like to make a meal of me) is completely out of my reach. I've tried with various materials at various shops to sell things to the chest, and they're always full. If i can't make money, then I have no money to spend, so I can't help the economy. Empty your chests occasionally, or at least leave room for a few stacks. I would LOVE to be able to buy enough packed ice to finish my house (quite a bit, and they're a gold for 16 I think in Triterium, don't quote me though) but if I can't sell you a block of redstone to make .9 gold, I can't do squat in your shop, and I leave with my tail between my legs and no materials.

 

[Klandan]

I've wanted to see others' opinions on this before I jumped in, and given that most have stated their points and I was asked directly to comment, it seems now is the time. I'll address the basics of our current economy and then why it's stale.

1st Fact: Gold is nearly worthless from the server's perspective.
Outside of the initial value of gold in starting a town for 30g or max'ing a town's bonus chunks for 600g, there is only a 1g/day cost (and that is split between all town members). Assuming anybody continues mining after their town is maxed, this will cause inflation because there will be incoming gold with nothing to spend it on. After that initial 630g, gold is nearly worthless outside of the 2nd fact.

2nd Fact: Gold is simply stored trading power to get items that are useful at a later time.
Besides the few uses gold truly has as a crafting material, its main purpose is as currency now. Once you acquire an initial amount of gold, you can start to use it to trade with others. You can buy things you need with it (as long as it has perceived value and desired buyables are sold) and you can sell valuable things in order to get it. Having a ton of gold really only means that you could use that gold to get the items instead of spend the time/effort to get it yourself (gold = time). Currency allows for this trading to be done without others having to be online by using shops.


Despite the fact that gold's purchasing power is decreasing the closer people get to max'ing their towns, gold still isn't frequently being used as a trading medium. Reason 1 is that people are mostly hoarding gold instead of using it to save their time. This is likely due to the misperception of gold having longevity in value as anything other than a trading medium. To the point, outside of the first 630g for a town, gold is nearly worthless outside of as a trading medium.

Fix: Don't add expensive server-side-only items. Given that gold already isn't being spent, offering reasons to hoard it even more would do nothing but make trading happen even less than it already is. At this point there should be a slight increase of influx of gold. Make it a choice. Offer 5g (or whatever) for logging on per day and have it cost that same 5g to purchase the ability to warp to your death spot or something to that effect for the day. It would give people a choice to spend that gold on a nice ability during adventuring or to spend that gold on trading for items to build.

Reason 2 is that we seem to have a larger portion of item-farmers than item-consumers. This isn't inherently bad, it just means that there's a large supply and small need of items. When confronted with the choice between hunting for gold to purchase things you actually want vs. hunting directly for the items you want, the current players are mostly just hunting directly.

Fix: Help them realize their time and building is more valuable than hoarding gold. The small gold influx might help with that, combined with them actually reaching the limit of what gold can purchase besides trade items.

At a later time we may need to address inflation with no outflux of gold from the game, but we can address that when it comes, and I have several ideas.

 

[Klandan]

The issue of shops called for a separate post.

1st concern: People want to sell items to chests that are full.
Look at it this way. You're trying to sell ice to an eskimo. If a chest is full it means that item isn't selling (has no current value to traders), therefore the shop isn't going to pay money for something that at the time is worthless. I often give a courtesy announcement of item amounts that have been bought (and can be restocked by you for trading power). I intentionally avoid stocking items myself to encourage others to get their own trading power by stocking those items themselves. Try farming items that people are looking to trade for because there will be space in the shop to get trading power if people are buying them. Only when items run out or are not being restocked by traders do I step in to make sure the supply remains good. Encouraging people to use the Trading HUB for selling AND buying will only make the HUB more functional and beneficial for all.

2nd concern: Everybody and their mother wants a shop.
I'll be stupidly blunt, maybe to my own detriment, but it's purely honest. There isn't a need for multiple functioning shops. Note the functioning part. If you want decorative shops and the like, go for it, but one properly-managed trading HUB is all that is truly needed. The reason is this: people will determine what price they set their time at, each item will have its cost based on that price and the time it takes to get the item, and a good shop will buy the item for that price. The sale price should be at, or just above, the cost to get the item. One shop that has this figured out, and adjusts a bit as value fluctuates, is enough, especially given teleporters. More shops makes things convoluted as people don't want to search for where people bought from so they can sell. I think some people just want others to visit their towns, so just think of a way other than jacking with a stable economy.

I enjoy maintaining a great Trading HUB. It takes more effort than people realize, which is why the initial flood of fresh shops ends with them being unstocked or outdated with time. The truth of the matter is this, I'm not the best builder, the best recruiter, or the best forager; I often put off my own builds for lengthy periods of time, or indefinitely, just to make sure that better builders than I have the materials they need to bring their creations into reality. I love providing the best Trading HUB I can, I love improving it based on feedback, and I can't imagine what else I'd do on the server if was unable to continue doing it.

 

[Atlas]

Well i dont Think anyone could have said that any better than Klandan. Because i agree 99% (the only part i disagree with is being charged to get on the game) Other than that. I love the idea. and agree.

 

[Klandan]

Then you might change it to 100% because what I said was that you get PAID each time you log on. You then have a choice whether to use that money to purchase items from players or use it to purchase an ability for the day, like warping to death spot.

 

[Atlas]

OHHH hahahahhahaha dyslexia for the win. Okay sorry read that wrong. Then yes, I'm in 100% with Klandan on the economy. All hail the economic professor $$$$$$

 

[Fayettemat]

I disagree! I could rig this very easy to get tons of gold. There should be more of a "if you login you get X per day" if we do that.

 

[Bluelion319]

I believe that is what he is saying. Not every time you log on. If you logged on once that day then that 5g or whatever is what you get for that day. After this if you log on it does not get you another 5g.

 

[Atlas]

That's what he said, he said per day, not for every log.

 

[Tim122911]

Whelp,
I was not going to comment, but personally I think the economy is just fine as it is. Nobody is starving, everyone has enough gold, building supplies are ample, people like to horde their wealth. Maybe I am just being simplistic, but what more do you want?

 

[Atlas]

Well then again. Why do I really care too. So I also agree with Tim. I'm just going to get myself/Elysium out of the conversation, however people are still welcome to build shops here if they like. Just ask. Have a nice day.

 

[Xzarida]

Whelp,
I was not going to comment, but personally I think the economy is just fine as it is. Nobody is starving, everyone has enough gold, building supplies are ample, people like to horde their wealth. Maybe I am just being simplistic, but what more do you want?

Personally as I saw things go on, i am starting to agree with you. The server seems to be doing fine as a standpoint of an economy.
I wonder if switching plugins would be a good idea. I have seen the auction plugin work a lot better than the shop plugin, but the only problem is we don't have that many members on the server...

 

[redhand0421]

I think Klandan is 100% right, and I think that more game-side gold sinks could be effective.

I was going to offer this as an idea for a microtransation, but this actually may be more useful as an economic gold sink.

What if it was possible to buy an "Insurance Plan?"

Players can pay 20g for the privilege to keep their items on their next death. I'm sure many players would buy this, as most of them don't die often, but it would be really nice not to lose all of your hard-earned enchanted armor and weapons when you die.

Implementations like this would surely keep the game interesting and likewise stimulate the economy.

EDIT: Some talk on the server has suggested some changes.

• Price would be calculated based on (deaths / time played). That way, people who tend to die more would need to pay more, those who died less pay less, similar to a real insurance company.
• Either:
  • Player would pay per-day. So if they played on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, they would only be charged for four days.
  • Cost would tick even while player was inactive, similar to towny.